Love the game! Quick recommendation: the whetstone feels super OP to me. I would consider either limiting to once per turn, or maybe only lasting for a turn, or reducing the effect.
It is OP but not super, there are crazier stuff out there, its just too easy to use so you saw it easy. It becomes less and less usefull in infinite floors because it doesnt give insane burst like mage build can neither can it do enough exponentiality as it is limited by your energy. I can only see it go brrr if you fill your inventory with berserk rings realy haha.
To expand on Toranet's original comment, the Whetstone is quite frankly meh as an item. Each time I do get one in my inventory, it is usually there to take space. I almost never use it due to the marginal damage bonus it provides.
Additionally, there are better items to use over the whetstone. The ring of doom provides +2 damage points to weapons near it when used, but given that it is a magic item that costs 1 mana, I can use it a lot to ready myself up while keeping my energy in tact. The poison whetstone, in spite of being usable only once per turn, deals way more damage to the enemy because that gives the weapons +1 poison which stacks and not only that, but the poison takes a while to go away, so the player is constantly dealing damage to the enemy while the enemy can not do anything about it.
There is one occurence in the game where the item does get pretty broken, it is whenever the player has a shiv/hatchet/cleaver build because the whetstone affects every weapon in its row and column, so you can get +30 damage worth out of one whestone if you have 10 shivs.
Hey! I have a question, when i try to put my gauntlet up after it shifted down when i got a new space to the left on that row, it won't let me put the gauntlet up that space. Why is that?
There are heavy objects, they all go to the bottom, they would only stay higher if there is another heavy below them. Structures, several weapons and these gauntlets are heavy
I have just thought of a build... ethereal blade staff+bomb=125 damage per 3 mana... you can also add hourglass and weights to the mix for extra spice... Gona try to do it if I get the chance, post it if you manage. I wana see it :D
You can sell it for 1 gold and there is a weapon that gets stronger when something near gets destroyed, also an item that can spawn herbs, while you can use this to make strong weapon there are less convoluted and more efficient methods to make super weapons
I got no idea why its not common grade item, could have been rare if it got to keep that armor forever, actualy it would be legendary then but as is its less usefull then tunic and breastplate because of neighbour bonuses.
I have a bug to report. Whenever I have the sound muted, both music and sfx, and I return to the game, the sfx is always on, I have to go to the options again to twiggle the slider a bit and then it gets properly muted. The music doesn't do that, only sfx sounds.
There is already an item to remove poison per use of nearby weapon and another that lets you delete all near curses for 5 hp, not ideal cus you need to allocate space for curses but still
Common softlock. Enemies with constant defence, constant heal, or constant Dodge <armadillo, sage, cultist> can, and will outramp their defence compared to your offence.
One constant way to beat them is to have at least 2poison damage per turn. At certain point you WILL stack that poison higher than their max HP.
Other way, working on Non-Cultist, is stopwatch or whetstone. You can, and will get more damage than they can defend for. Each use of whetstone is at least +9 allout damage. More if you got bonus energy.
Game is great, new Cultist and Sable give a new and different ways to approach battles. Although cultist is annoying
Also, it is way overtuned on Endless, there are only handfulls of builds that MIGHT deal with this, and that is basically either Mage, or King Cleaver, OR, you need 1k damage burst on turn one Bows might deal with it, they might not.
The only other way to deal with NG+ Cultist is poison. A lot of poison.
The 16 stacks of dodge on turn one? Good luck if it is Cultist Snake.
This is the 5th time this has happened to me when reloading into a saved game.
The icons on the map are frozen and the backpack is well, you can see. As far as I know it is simply an issue with loading a save file, nothing to do with particular events or items. Sometimes if you reload the page it fixes itself, other times it just stays like this.
I am improving the save feature, but I believe these errors are from one of three causes:
1. Mouse moves over an item while it is loading. I will fix this, but in the meantime keep your mouse outside the frame until the game is fully loaded.
2. Save your game with your inventory displayed. Don't save when pressing buttons, moving things, or viewing the map.
3. WebGL gives us a lot of heartache when saving and loading. We will be switching to local builds around the time the KickStarter comes out. Hope we'll have your support! Should be in the next week or so
Someone mentioned that golden whetstones stack additively (e.g. one whetstone = 1.25x dmg. two whetstones = 2.50x damage). And I wanted to see how well it'll work with the assassin dagger and barbells. After tons of tries, this is the result. The dagger is too weak normally. The only way you can pull this off is if you somehow have scaling infinite block as you try to get kills with the dagger. In most games, you die before the dagger ever begins scaling. Finally, by the time endless dungeon starts, the enemy's hp scales faster than the dagger can scale. I might be doing 900 dmg a hit, but enemy has 2000-3000 hp each. The game above I was super lucky in getting 4 whetstones by floor 11.
I'm loving to see the game grow in depth. Kudos to the entire dev team. I think it would be interesting if certain items had interactions with other items. Such as the piggy bank breaking if a heavy item is dropped on it, cute things like that.
I reciprocate TheRealAskz's opinion. Spikes discourage players from whacking enemies with their wand(s) and stacking up damage early each battle.
The trade-off for realism would be balance. This suggestion would make wands more powerful than they are now, and yet, players still manage to exploit them in spite of the downgrades they received recently.
If the developers ever consider excluding wands from spikes then they must add an effect that blocks magic damage (e.g Magic Protection) and unlike dodge which can be decreased by attacking the enemy, it should last until it has used up all its turns.
First off, just wanted to say I’ve been playing since the relic update and this game is incredible with even more awesome potential than I can imagine, thank you so much for all your hard work making and improving it and I look forward to what it will become.
Note that I have no idea how hard it is to program anything into the game and limited sense of game balance so take any of my suggestions purely from the perspective of a player who wants to do fun things. I’m sure you have plans for half my suggestions already, just putting stuff out there.
The new archery is kind of mixed bag, early on it’s really bad because your bag is so small and later it takes up so much space it’s kind of iffy unless you get the now god tier bow relic mouse wood, upon which you no longer care about the rest of your inventory because everything dies horribly, especially if you can get extra actions. As you can see from my bag above this is insane, I had less than half my inventory full, 18 open spaces and this is the second build I’ve ever had it make past the level 15 boss.
My problem with the space hog nature of archery as is is that it seems like it would either be a good weapon for like 3 times the space investment of other equivalent weapons or you have to go all in on it and have very very little room for anything else like I did, which felt really limiting. I’m not really sure how to fix it, if you went static arrow damage without the open space boosts you’d probably have to do something to limit the number of arrows used, maybe disabling nearby arrows or reducing damage by number of arrows or something. The only other thing I can think of is making some items that count as open space for archers or a special archer bag or something weird like that...
Honestly what I expected you were going to do with archery was what you did with magic, arrows with limited shots/round and quivers as free action reloaders, but I can see how going with the same kind of thing again might be boring.
The new structures were great, my brick builds in the past usually ended horribly but the new utility of conduits makes them more viable for mana builds and I do love building my wizards tower. Though it looks like that’s going to be a lot harder with them being rare now. Some kind of brick/structure weapon(maybe something that gets power from surrounding structures along the line of the fish/key/curse swords?) and structures that make things could be fun future options. My dream of a full backpack castle may one day be fulfilled.
Better items that make disposable weapons would be nice. Perhaps make the ethereal weapons and ethereal weapon generators more viable? Most are just way too clunky/space hogging to use. Something like a quiver that makes darts would be cool too.
I swear I get King every wand run I do and die pathetically unless I happen to get the candle relic, why do magic wands trigger spikes? Gets me in cleaver and hatchet/shiv runs too. Better anti-spike options would be great, as a player who loves killing enemies via death from a thousand cuts I hate spikes with a passion.
Speaking of status effects, more reliable ways to remove poison wouldn’t be amiss, one of these days I’d love to actually use these poison ivy I keep finding.
The cauldron nerf makes me sad, my build entirely based on using it to make star potions for a chance of golden whetstones was the most fun I ever had on a run. Insanely luck based but hilarious, one of 2 times I ever made it past the level 15 boss was the first time I ever tried the build. 10 golden whetstones on a jagged blade was insane, never did manage to repeat that when I tried it more but man it was epic. Reliable ways to produce star potions or the new glitch potions could be fun if insane.
Vampiric weapons seem to still suck pretty bad, at least in the 2 aborted attempts I tried. Maybe I’m just not using them right.
Forge events seem heavily weighted towards shield boosts, I’ve gotten shield boost around 20 times as often as weapon boosts, which really sucks cause I don’t like shield builds and usually don’t carry them. Letting some of the shield boosts affect armor would be nice, or at least mean they weren’t useless to non-shield users.
Speaking of events, your nifty mini game events outshine most of your non-mini game events so much I’m immediately disappointed whenever I see a potion/book/wand/fish/archery/whatever seller pop up even on the rare occasion I actually want any of those things. Maybe having them set up like mini shops instead would be more appealing as I almost always get useless garbage even when I do try to use them, wasting money for nothing.
Always keep in mind fun is way more important then anything else including strict game balance. People remember the runs they did crazy things in a lot more than those they did the same basic common sense tactics in.
never used it, but rogue mask seems like it sucks ngl gives 1 haste and 1 weak and it's legendary for some reason i'm pretty sure a literal flower can do better
It does have its use cases. Mainly, Haste Forge event. That +1 haste? Makes it so you do not lose haste buffs on you. Still, the moment you get two haste forges in a run, which is rare, it becomes a moot point. Also, cultist exists.
Defeated the Grandmaster with Archery, which I never thought I'd get to say. For context the middle arrow has a golden whetstone used on it. Also the dodge Buff is a godsend however if an attack does a debuff and damage it does not dodge both, only the attack. Not sure if I just needed 2 stacks, if it's intended or if it's a bug.
Edit: Also when you later add different bags please add an extra long one for archery builds.
I'm gonna say this much, the relics have finally made the ethereal weapons worth using.
Ps: If you manage your way into an endless floor, avoid Sables at all cost. Maybe this would have gone differently if I had the hourglass along the bombstone in my inventory.
After the last patch I played a bit and had to leave when I came back this is what I came back too, I'm on the wrong side of the map and my inventory is all messed up (missing item and wrong spots) but the game acts like normal.
Its amazing !!!!! like slay the spire, but better )
in 5 runs got to boss, endless mode scales stats way much (imho) some items have "create " wich i supose means "create gold" maybe ? pls continue this amazing game p.s. whetstone + shivs = eazy combo
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The boss item which doubles damage to arrows is broken, it does double the damage of all arrows, but no arrows are shot.
Mouse Wood also disables arrows if the arrow has any items adjacent to it
Frog healer to op
Love the game! Quick recommendation: the whetstone feels super OP to me. I would consider either limiting to once per turn, or maybe only lasting for a turn, or reducing the effect.
It is OP but not super, there are crazier stuff out there, its just too easy to use so you saw it easy. It becomes less and less usefull in infinite floors because it doesnt give insane burst like mage build can neither can it do enough exponentiality as it is limited by your energy. I can only see it go brrr if you fill your inventory with berserk rings realy haha.
No.
To expand on Toranet's original comment, the Whetstone is quite frankly meh as an item. Each time I do get one in my inventory, it is usually there to take space. I almost never use it due to the marginal damage bonus it provides.
Additionally, there are better items to use over the whetstone. The ring of doom provides +2 damage points to weapons near it when used, but given that it is a magic item that costs 1 mana, I can use it a lot to ready myself up while keeping my energy in tact. The poison whetstone, in spite of being usable only once per turn, deals way more damage to the enemy because that gives the weapons +1 poison which stacks and not only that, but the poison takes a while to go away, so the player is constantly dealing damage to the enemy while the enemy can not do anything about it.
There is one occurence in the game where the item does get pretty broken, it is whenever the player has a shiv/hatchet/cleaver build because the whetstone affects every weapon in its row and column, so you can get +30 damage worth out of one whestone if you have 10 shivs.
Hey! I have a question, when i try to put my gauntlet up after it shifted down when i got a new space to the left on that row, it won't let me put the gauntlet up that space. Why is that?
heavy
There are heavy objects, they all go to the bottom, they would only stay higher if there is another heavy below them. Structures, several weapons and these gauntlets are heavy
I have just thought of a build... ethereal blade staff+bomb=125 damage per 3 mana... you can also add hourglass and weights to the mix for extra spice... Gona try to do it if I get the chance, post it if you manage. I wana see it :D
This? (I mean it was when the Archery update came out but still I posted this a bit ago)
What does the herb do?
You can sell it for 1 gold and there is a weapon that gets stronger when something near gets destroyed, also an item that can spawn herbs, while you can use this to make strong weapon there are less convoluted and more efficient methods to make super weapons
Has anyone ever used the Chainmail? I think it's the worst...
I got no idea why its not common grade item, could have been rare if it got to keep that armor forever, actualy it would be legendary then but as is its less usefull then tunic and breastplate because of neighbour bonuses.
I have a bug to report. Whenever I have the sound muted, both music and sfx, and I return to the game, the sfx is always on, I have to go to the options again to twiggle the slider a bit and then it gets properly muted. The music doesn't do that, only sfx sounds.
I FINALLY DID IT. A SLIME SWORD BUILD!!!!!!!!!!!!
You monster xD
may I make the one requested of this game, for a form of special defense against poison and curses so that I could go past Floor 14.
There is already an item to remove poison per use of nearby weapon and another that lets you delete all near curses for 5 hp, not ideal cus you need to allocate space for curses but still
Bag of Knives? More like quiver replacement. I love the new archery btw. Alright its basically infinite
32.3k Health points?!! That's sooo hard
holy sho, how did you deal so much damage to him? do you have a sword that deals 100 damage?
coz I am the greatest cheater with tons of patience. PS: use save and load wisely
Loving the fish sword, 61 damage when I died on floor 12.
Curse sword can go there too without gold stone
i have no clue what to do now
Common softlock. Enemies with constant defence, constant heal, or constant Dodge <armadillo, sage, cultist> can, and will outramp their defence compared to your offence.
One constant way to beat them is to have at least 2poison damage per turn. At certain point you WILL stack that poison higher than their max HP.
Other way, working on Non-Cultist, is stopwatch or whetstone. You can, and will get more damage than they can defend for. Each use of whetstone is at least +9 allout damage. More if you got bonus energy.
My first time trying the cleaver build at it worked and I beat the game
Prey to Jebus not to run into King with it, that thing gets stacks of spines for each hit it takes making you kill yourself
Did a bow run one turn killed the last boss
I used two water sacks and a dodge potion, I love bows now
Game is great, new Cultist and Sable give a new and different ways to approach battles.
The only other way to deal with NG+ Cultist is poison. A lot of poison.Although cultist is annoying
Also, it is way overtuned on Endless, there are only handfulls of builds that MIGHT deal with this, and that is basically either Mage, or King Cleaver, OR, you need 1k damage burst on turn one
Bows might deal with it, they might not.
The 16 stacks of dodge on turn one? Good luck if it is Cultist Snake.
This is such an awesome game!
This is the 5th time this has happened to me when reloading into a saved game.
The icons on the map are frozen and the backpack is well, you can see. As far as I know it is simply an issue with loading a save file, nothing to do with particular events or items. Sometimes if you reload the page it fixes itself, other times it just stays like this.
I am improving the save feature, but I believe these errors are from one of three causes:
1. Mouse moves over an item while it is loading. I will fix this, but in the meantime keep your mouse outside the frame until the game is fully loaded.
2. Save your game with your inventory displayed. Don't save when pressing buttons, moving things, or viewing the map.
3. WebGL gives us a lot of heartache when saving and loading. We will be switching to local builds around the time the KickStarter comes out. Hope we'll have your support! Should be in the next week or so
Aww, but I'm too impatient for that ;)
Thanks for the info, good luck fixing it.
The shady trader can trade you exactly the same item, which seems odd.
ya but, at least he did not give you a worse item
i really like the game. didn't encounter any bugs.
Description
on the Hawkeye's Bow is unfinished/ missing text.
Does anyone know what it does?
Sorry! Seems like a glitch related to the wheel!
I still don't understand what makes it different from a regular bow.
It fires arrows from 2 sides, letting you stack them more/different from usual.
Someone mentioned that golden whetstones stack additively (e.g. one whetstone = 1.25x dmg. two whetstones = 2.50x damage). And I wanted to see how well it'll work with the assassin dagger and barbells. After tons of tries, this is the result. The dagger is too weak normally. The only way you can pull this off is if you somehow have scaling infinite block as you try to get kills with the dagger. In most games, you die before the dagger ever begins scaling. Finally, by the time endless dungeon starts, the enemy's hp scales faster than the dagger can scale. I might be doing 900 dmg a hit, but enemy has 2000-3000 hp each. The game above I was super lucky in getting 4 whetstones by floor 11.
I'm loving to see the game grow in depth. Kudos to the entire dev team. I think it would be interesting if certain items had interactions with other items. Such as the piggy bank breaking if a heavy item is dropped on it, cute things like that.
How deep is the dungeon? And how much time, approx., does it take to finish the game? Asking as the game won’t let me save my progress.
at the moment the core run is 9 floors. Which can take 30 minutes to an hour to complete
Thx for reply.
If bows aren't affected by spikes, I feel like wands shouldn't be either.
no
I agree. I mean unless your beating them with the wand...
I reciprocate TheRealAskz's opinion. Spikes discourage players from whacking enemies with their wand(s) and stacking up damage early each battle.
The trade-off for realism would be balance. This suggestion would make wands more powerful than they are now, and yet, players still manage to exploit them in spite of the downgrades they received recently.
If the developers ever consider excluding wands from spikes then they must add an effect that blocks magic damage (e.g Magic Protection) and unlike dodge which can be decreased by attacking the enemy, it should last until it has used up all its turns.
Review/Comments/Recommendations
First off, just wanted to say I’ve been playing since the relic update and this game is incredible with even more awesome potential than I can imagine, thank you so much for all your hard work making and improving it and I look forward to what it will become.
Note that I have no idea how hard it is to program anything into the game and limited sense of game balance so take any of my suggestions purely from the perspective of a player who wants to do fun things. I’m sure you have plans for half my suggestions already, just putting stuff out there.
The new archery is kind of mixed bag, early on it’s really bad because your bag is so small and later it takes up so much space it’s kind of iffy unless you get the now god tier bow relic mouse wood, upon which you no longer care about the rest of your inventory because everything dies horribly, especially if you can get extra actions. As you can see from my bag above this is insane, I had less than half my inventory full, 18 open spaces and this is the second build I’ve ever had it make past the level 15 boss.
My problem with the space hog nature of archery as is is that it seems like it would either be a good weapon for like 3 times the space investment of other equivalent weapons or you have to go all in on it and have very very little room for anything else like I did, which felt really limiting. I’m not really sure how to fix it, if you went static arrow damage without the open space boosts you’d probably have to do something to limit the number of arrows used, maybe disabling nearby arrows or reducing damage by number of arrows or something. The only other thing I can think of is making some items that count as open space for archers or a special archer bag or something weird like that...
Honestly what I expected you were going to do with archery was what you did with magic, arrows with limited shots/round and quivers as free action reloaders, but I can see how going with the same kind of thing again might be boring.
The new structures were great, my brick builds in the past usually ended horribly but the new utility of conduits makes them more viable for mana builds and I do love building my wizards tower. Though it looks like that’s going to be a lot harder with them being rare now. Some kind of brick/structure weapon(maybe something that gets power from surrounding structures along the line of the fish/key/curse swords?) and structures that make things could be fun future options. My dream of a full backpack castle may one day be fulfilled.
Better items that make disposable weapons would be nice. Perhaps make the ethereal weapons and ethereal weapon generators more viable? Most are just way too clunky/space hogging to use. Something like a quiver that makes darts would be cool too.
I swear I get King every wand run I do and die pathetically unless I happen to get the candle relic, why do magic wands trigger spikes? Gets me in cleaver and hatchet/shiv runs too. Better anti-spike options would be great, as a player who loves killing enemies via death from a thousand cuts I hate spikes with a passion.
Speaking of status effects, more reliable ways to remove poison wouldn’t be amiss, one of these days I’d love to actually use these poison ivy I keep finding.
The cauldron nerf makes me sad, my build entirely based on using it to make star potions for a chance of golden whetstones was the most fun I ever had on a run. Insanely luck based but hilarious, one of 2 times I ever made it past the level 15 boss was the first time I ever tried the build. 10 golden whetstones on a jagged blade was insane, never did manage to repeat that when I tried it more but man it was epic. Reliable ways to produce star potions or the new glitch potions could be fun if insane.
Vampiric weapons seem to still suck pretty bad, at least in the 2 aborted attempts I tried. Maybe I’m just not using them right.
Forge events seem heavily weighted towards shield boosts, I’ve gotten shield boost around 20 times as often as weapon boosts, which really sucks cause I don’t like shield builds and usually don’t carry them. Letting some of the shield boosts affect armor would be nice, or at least mean they weren’t useless to non-shield users.
Speaking of events, your nifty mini game events outshine most of your non-mini game events so much I’m immediately disappointed whenever I see a potion/book/wand/fish/archery/whatever seller pop up even on the rare occasion I actually want any of those things. Maybe having them set up like mini shops instead would be more appealing as I almost always get useless garbage even when I do try to use them, wasting money for nothing.
Always keep in mind fun is way more important then anything else including strict game balance. People remember the runs they did crazy things in a lot more than those they did the same basic common sense tactics in.
The tasty fly? does it have any purpose other than making shure i dont see any shops?
it halves the price of things in shops forever if you give it to a shop
thank you. now i just need to find a shop and a fly
good luck with that i'm nearing endless final boss and i haven't found a shop
never used it, but rogue mask seems like it sucks ngl
gives 1 haste and 1 weak and it's legendary for some reason
i'm pretty sure a literal flower can do better
THANK YOU IT FREAKING SUCKS
it didn't suck before effect nerf and its nerf it didn't give weak
It does have its use cases. Mainly, Haste Forge event. That +1 haste? Makes it so you do not lose haste buffs on you. Still, the moment you get two haste forges in a run, which is rare, it becomes a moot point.
Also, cultist exists.
Haste forges make sense, but I don't think +1 haste will combat 4 slow, and especially not 4 weak, since you'll have it forever if you don't clear it
I don't think this is intened behavior, but when you give an arrow vampiric damage the vampiric damage will trigger thorns.
It might be intentional. If Vampiric sword and axe did not trigger on spikes, it would lead to inconsistencies.
finally finished the game for the first time :D
Defeated the Grandmaster with Archery, which I never thought I'd get to say. For context the middle arrow has a golden whetstone used on it. Also the dodge Buff is a godsend however if an attack does a debuff and damage it does not dodge both, only the attack. Not sure if I just needed 2 stacks, if it's intended or if it's a bug.
Edit: Also when you later add different bags please add an extra long one for archery builds.
holy shot, big brain
Hey I commented last week about being able to download the game and I'm just curious how that is going?
We hope to have information next week! We have been working nonstop but theres just so much behind the scenes. Hope you're enjoying the web builds!
if you have the itch.io app you can download it.
there’s an app??
There is some text missing from the Ethereal Staff. It does not say what it creates.
I'm gonna say this much, the relics have finally made the ethereal weapons worth using.
Ps: If you manage your way into an endless floor, avoid Sables at all cost. Maybe this would have gone differently if I had the hourglass along the bombstone in my inventory.
I tried reloading many times but it's stuck like this.
i got the shield gives haste and my shives did 50 damage each beat the boss damageless
Its amazing !!!!!
like slay the spire, but better )
in 5 runs got to boss, endless mode scales stats way much (imho)
some items have "create " wich i supose means "create gold" maybe ?
pls continue this amazing game
p.s.
whetstone + shivs = eazy combo